large body lifts

[tonkatoy934x]

O.K. I have read most of the threads about body lifts and most people agree that 3" should be the maximum amount. But what noone has done, aside from being able to see the frame, is give their thoughts about why you shouldn't go any larger. I do know that on a Toyota, the frame/engine/trans/axles is the majority of the mass of the total vehicle weight. So, based on this, body lift should be a preferred lift for rock climbing and other off camber maneuvers and would reduce the amount the center of gravity would rise as compared to a suspension lift. What exactly are you basing the opinion on? I know some states have laws against any more than 3", but other states ban any body lift, and some ban any lift of any kind. I have my own thoughts, but would like to hear from some others. Any thoughts?? Maybe someone out there can bring up something I haven't thought of.

[rockcrawlintoy]

how about the stress on the body bolts. keeping the truck low is key for rock crawling and anything off camber.

[tonkatoy934x]

O.K. Here are my thoughts:

If you have a stock truck, and just for a number, the center of gravity is 18" above the road, and the body is 1/4 the total weight of the truck. If you put a 4" susp lift on it, with the same stock tires, the center will rise to just below (because of wheels and tires not moving) 22". If you take the same truck, and lift just the body, moving it up 4" would raise the c.o.g. less than 1". So, you could increase the tire size by 6" in diameter before your c.o.g. would be as high as the 4" susp. lift. (but I know the fenders would get in the way before that)

Now, why is it that everyone thinks that a body lift has to be "hockey pucks"? Why not extend or relocate the mounts? No extra stress on the bolts then.

And as far as seeing the frame, when you look at a "monster truck", Do you not see a lot of the frame hanging down below the body? This again is done to keep the c.o.g. low for increased stability (the original "Bigfoot" probably would have been on it's roof more than it's tires if Bob had tried half of the stuff they do with them now!). It also keeps the drivetrain in freindlier alignment. And for a DD, these are both good points.

Any more thoughts? I love a good discussion.

[rockcrawlintoy]

moving the body mounts to lift the body seems like a lot of work to do it right, and then you are stuck with crappy stock suspension. also as the weight gets higher it actually takes less to make the truck unstable it acts like a lever. as far as monster trucks lol they have no frame. also a suspension lift will lift the frame up higher so you dont hit it on rocks and what not.

DRew

[tonkatoy934x]

well, if no one else wants to jump in, I guess it will be just the two of us. Now in the example i used before, we start with 2 identical trucks.

truck 1. use a generic 4" suspension lift and go from a stock 31" tire to a 35". The cog will raise 4" gecause of the lift and another 2" because of the tires. for a total of 6" lift in the cog.(approximations) Also, you still have "stock" acting suspension and travel.

truck 2. put 4" body lift and go from the same 31" to 35" tire. because of the reduction in weight that is being moved, the BL raises the cog 1" and the tire size lifts it the same 2", for a total of 3".

now the question is, which truck will tip to the side first when put in a roll-over situation? ie sideways on a hill, rock or washout or in a highway speed emergency maneuver? and to top it off, physically, the trucks are still the same size.

[86taco]

I have seen full size blazer chassis with a s-10 body on it. IT had 10'' body lift and it flipped over on it s side onthe street. You can do anything you want. but make it safe. Depends on the situation and other factors. You should not go over 3'' because you dont really want your body falling off your chassis because your ass is in it.

[speedy]

Amongst other issues, you will have to contend with lengthening your steering rod(or whatever it is called). This will change the angle of both U-joints involved. All hydralic lines will need to be reviewed for compatability. The shifter on your 5 speed and transfercase will have a much harder time in the space provided for in the transmission tunnel. I don't know if there are any other issues with radiator hoses, fuel lines, vacuum lines, ac lines, or fitment of the engine.
I would agree that you would definitely have to fabricate something for the body mounts as the extended mounts would surely topple, I have seen it on 3 inch lifts. The work involved would be time, energy, and money better spent on a suspension lift that will increase your overall clearance and articulation which is for me, the key to ultimate happiness.

[tonkatoy934x]

86taco, I will definitely agree with you that 10" of BL is VERY extreme, but you failed to mention any details of why the truck flipped. Did the body fall off the frame and pull the frame over?We all know that when you raise the COG of any 4 wheeled vehicle(car truck van...) you decrease the stability of it. ( make it more prone to rollover) So, we have to drive our vehicles with that thought in mind. Now if all of the lift in your example had been suspension lift, how much sooner might a rollover have happened with the COG that much higher, by also raising the weight of the engine/trans/frame? and with some good thought and common sense designing, a BL can be fabbed that would not be any more prone to tipping or breaking than the stock mounting arrangement.

DRew, i must disagree with you. monster trucks DO have frames. They are just called "tube chassis"and yes, most of them cradle the engine/ trans/ t-case in a relatively low position for stability and driveline alignment. And, you hit the nail on the head in your last comment "also as the weight gets higher it actually takes less to make the truck unstable it acts like a lever." in other words, when you raise just the body, you change the stability of the vehicle less than raising the whole truck the same amount.

ok, speedy, to you. Your points are right on. When you get a BL kit, it comes with the spacers, a steering shaft adapter(to effectively lengthen the shaft), brackets for your bumper, and bars to weld in for lengthening the shifters.... All of the points you stated have to be considered with ANY of the BL kits you purchase.

Now to come clean, When I purchased my truck, it was on 33x12.50x15 BFG AT's with only a 3" BL. It worked good with no rubbing, but I wanted to get a little more out of it for trails, climbing and washout crossing. I looked at suspension lifts and decided that $1500 for 4" was a little steep for the IFS, to get a good system( not using blocks). So, with the old measuring tape in hand, i found that to fit 35's I only needed 2" of clearance for them to fit and also not scrub anything. For less than $100, I added the 2" to the existing BL.(Still can't afford the tires yet.) This was almost a year ago, and have had absolutely no safety issues with the arrangement, although I personally do not care for using plastic for the spacers(planning to replace them with steel spacers welded to the frame). Now, I did have to consider all of the complications you mentioned more closely with the additional lift, but no major problems. The radiator would never have been able to work with the stock fan(5"drop brackets...no), but had already done an e-fan swap, so was not a problem. The shifters already had the lengthening bar welded on, and were bumping into each other in reverse a little heat and reshaping gave all of the clearance i needed. Now i see you can get short-throw shifters for it. The steering shaft has a little tension on the rag jnoint, but not enough to cause concern. The hole where it comes through the firewall will limit ANY further lift without adding a u-joint in the shaft. The only other problem I had, was the e-brake. When I lifted the extra 2 inches, the e-brake engaged and would not release. the added distance pulled the cable tight because of all of the clips under the body and over the trans. since the trans wasn't in the way anymore, i released the clip at the top of the trans hump and repositioned the rest of the cable to release th tension, resecured the clips and was done. Like I said, almost a year and no safety problems.
Now, I must say, I, like a lot of other people have heard the scary "ooh don't do that, you're going to kill yourself" stories, and do regular checks to make sure that everything is secure, tight, not broken... just to make sure that i don't part company with my frame. This is my fun truck, and also my daily driver, which is included in being my work truck.

The work involved was not difficult, it was enjoyable - yes I LIKE working on my truck, to improve it - and took about 3/4 of a lazy Saturday to do it. No, I did not add any additional ground clearance, but with IFS lift systems, the added clearance is between the axles. The front crossmember is still in the same place and so is the rear axle housing. Now for the price of just a set of tires, and gears, I can get 2" of additional ground clearance as opposed to the lift, plus tires, plus gears, to get the same 2"of clearance. And, if dragging the frame on rocks gets to be a problem, I'll make some slider bars for it! My thought is, like I have heard alot of other people say, if your mod gets your truck to do what you want it to, and works well, safely, then go for it. By this, i mean that without having used this setup for almost a year, under sometimes questionable situations, I would not be talking about it. These are the kind of ideas that produced "Bigfoot" and all of it's kind, and also ALL of the aftermarket parts we shell out all of the money for.

By the way, I am seriously considering the options on sas.