All Pro SAS

[Sean]

I completed the SAS on my 90 runner in March. Took a couple years of collecting parts for me to afford it, but so far I definately beleive it was worth it.
Installation was simple. Since I'm not a very skilled welder I had the front spring hanger and shackle tubes welded in for me by a local tansmission/diff shop that specializes in 4x4's.

Actually had it done probably 5 months in advance as had planned to finish in the fall, but things came up.

Once the big weekend came I was ready with cutting torch, sawzall, angle grinder, and cut off tool. The torch was a bust as it was bored and neither me nor my buddy had a clue what we were doing with it. Giving up on the torch I started with the sawzall. 3-4 hours later using grinder and saw the front suspension hung on the floor. Another 4 hours of cutting and grinding offending IFS bracketry we were ready to start installing the new suspension.
Everything went together smoothly until I ran into a problem finding wheel studs. When I did my last order from All Pro the didn't have the wheeler spacers I wanted in stock so I choose to forgo them for the time being. Most of the wheel studs were buggered on my donor axle so during the rebuild process I threw them all out. Trying several parts chains and finally Toyota I could not find the proper studs. My truck sat with no wheel studs for nearly a week. Finally I sent it back to the shop to weld the shock hoops and do the coil to leaf conversion in the back. Eventually during the month it sat in the shop I managed to find some 7/16 studs with proper length and diameter knurl.
Having daily driven it for the last few months and wheeled it as much as possible the only review I can give it is awesome. Flex like mad clearance like crazy. Now I only need gearing to match, dual case here I come. The All Pro parts fit perfect and made this daunting task very easy.

[iluvdrt]

sweet i wish i had done the allpro swap but i opted for downey. how does it ride,drive, wheel. do you have any cool shots.

[Sean]

The ride is extrememly rough compared to the stock IFS and coil setup. My runner's front end was really worn prior to the swap, in fact I stopped driving it over a week before doing it because I feared a tie rod end would break. Because of this the handeling was much better then before the swap, but not as good as when we first got the 4runner.
It rides like what it is, a leaf sprung truck. Where as it rode almost like car before with it's IFS torsion front and rear coils. It drives straight with no bumpsteer.
Wheeling, well it's awesome. I can go so many places I could'nt before just because of the size of the tires. Flex is great and I rarely lift a tire, at least so far. I've only had it in some tame local areas. I'm hoping at the end of the month I'll be able to head out with a group of rigs that do a 4+trail about 2.5 hours from where I live.

The pics I posted in the general disscussion are the only action shots I have for now. I never remember to bring the camera. Hopefully I'll get some more shots soon.

[snorkleman]

Your truck looks great man. I'm actually in the process of swapping in a d44 in the front and a 9" ford in the rear. I was gonna do the toyota axle but got these two axles for the price of one. Should be interesting. Ill try to post some pics when i get finished.

[Sean]

Sounds sweet. Did you get the axles from an EB?

[racer85304]

i done all the looking around on the pricing for the ifs lift and other stuff i want. i was wanting to know what the avg price a sas would be. i will be install it my self. i have been to all pro offroad.com it is around 1700 is this what is usally is or can it be found cheaper.


thanks

[Sean]

It can be done a lot cheaper. It all depends of your fabrication skills of those of your friends. All Pro offers a lot of their stuff at the lowest market price. I don't beleive their is a cheaper highsteer kit or a better hanger kit but some guys build their own front hangers.
Again it depends on you. You could source the brake calipers locally and maybe get a better price.
I did'nt bother with wheel spacers for now, as they are against the law where I am.
Some people use ford towers instead of aftermarket hoops. A lot of people use waggoneer lift springs from rancho becasue they are cheap, move the axle forward of stock and are cheaper then aftermarket toys.
What I tried to do was collect parts from All-pro as they came on sale. Their springs are on sale now.

[racer85304]

i want to go sas. i did a search on sas but did not find much. what other sites have sas stuff. i am most likly only going to go 3.0 trails or easier. would it be wise to go sas for 3.0 trails or would ifs be okay. also do u guys know of any were that has plans for the spring hangers or stuff like that. i know a guy that owns a welding business so i trust him to weld everything up make some of the stuff.

i want to run 37x12.5 mtrs or 36x13.5 iroks. i thinking a 7" lift would be enough to fit those tires. what do u guys think. oh and i dont want to do any fender trimming.

thanks

[snorkleman]

As much crap that is written on IFS and how bad it is. If your locked front and rear you can do some really fun stuff much harder than a level 3 trail. 7" of lift is quite a big rig for easy trails. If your going for more show than trail use then you can suspension and body lift the heck out of it to make it work. But don't expect it to hold up on the trail if your using it hard. For 37's I would go SAS if your using it for the trail seriously. Kinda depends on your trail use and how much cash you want to sink in it. If you have the cash I would do SAS but your not gonna really use it much on easy trails. Its up to you.

[Sean]

For running 3 rated trails and lesser I would stick with a small IFS lift, rear locker, 33's and maybe a winch. You could get all this likely for less then a SAS and you won't sacrifice on road driveablity. My sas 4runner with 37's is great off road, but I definately sacrificed a ton of handling and stabilty on road. For me it was worth it because I am constantly searching for bigger challenges and was breaking a lot of stock parts. If I could do it again though I probably would have bought a seperate trail rig to build up.

[racer85304]

sean how much was you sas setup. everything but the welding if you had some one do that. what about the drive shafts. i am trying to sell my bike to fund this project. i am trying to sell it for 3200. i am gonna give my dad 1000 of it because he wants me to pay half for the truck(we bought it for 2000 from my aunt).

i might do more than a 3 trail i just dont want body damage. i dont want to spend the money on the ifs lift and have stuff break.

i am also locking the rear but if i do the swap i am gonna put the aussie locker in the front and get a arb for the rear later. ;D

u youguys dont know this is gonna be done to a 1989 toyota 5spd 4cly.

thanks

[Sean]

sas Posted 6-11-2003 22:45

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I did a SAS on my 90 4runner. Was it worth it? No doubt.

I did all but the welding work myself and it took me two years to collect all the parts. The actual swap took about 12.5 hours.

I bought most of my stuff from all-pro so it was'nt cheap. If you have the skill, or your dad does, or your buddy does ect.. it would be worth making some of the parts yourself. The front hanger is pretty easy to make, the shackles a joke. If you have access to a tubeing bender it would easy enough to make some shock hoops. You'll have to buy a steering setup. but they're done to under 400 from some places.

I suggest you search around the net as already suggested. Then start looking for an axle. Once you find one for a good price you can start rebuiding it, which is a project all it's own. Then pick a spring pack, and a cross-over that will work with it. Decide what you can make, and what you have to buy and go from there.

Total invested in my SAS,rear coil to leaf conversion, tires,shocks and lockers is about $9000 CDN. I had a shop do the coil to leaf as well as preinstall the front spring hanger and shackle tubes. After I cut out the IFS and installed the solid axle they welded in the shock hoops for me as well. Total shop cost including the front hanger and tubes was $1650. The rest is all parts and steel.
Short summary of parts cost

SAS parts

All-Pro springs, hanger kit, shock hoops, u-bolt flip kit, high steer-2800cdn
Front axle-100cdn
rebuild front axel with all new toyota parts including land cruiser rotors-800cdn
wrecker v6 diff w/4:56 gears-200cdn
weld on front hanger and shackle tubes-150cdn
bumpstops- 100cdn
shocks for front-350cdn
extended stainless brakelines-150cdn

other stuff

rear chevy springs-100 cdn
wrecker shackle hangers-35cdn
steel for shock mounts, shackles, and spring hangers-70cdn(I do have left over steel)
rear e-locker used w/4:56 gears-600cdn
rear shocks-350cdn
lift blocks-70cdn
bumpstops-100cdn
labour for coil to leaf conversion, e-locker housing mods and shock hoop install-1500
front cv driveshaft lengthen w/2 u-joints replaced to use in the rear-360cdn
material for front square tube shaft-60cdn
1 toyota u-joint for said shaft 80cdn
4 37x12.5 Goodyear MTR's w/mount, balance and alignment-1350cdn

I could have saved money on the axle rebuild for sure buy buying a kit from All-Pro or Randy's Ring and Pinion. Instead I foolishly went through the stealer, oops I mean dealer. To get all the parts I had to order gasket kits which came with redundant parts. ARRGGHHH! Also by the time I pay the exchange,shipping, federal tax, provincial tax and brokerage fees the stuff from all-pro cost me double the price as appears on their site.(ouch!)

No one tell my wife! She'd kill me if she new how much it cost in total.






In this achived thread I break down the cost in Canadian funds. At the time I bought most parts our dollar was very low and I got charged 14%tax plus brokerage fee's. Parts were costing me almost double the advertised price. As well quite a few of the parts have come down in price.
You'll get used to body damage after a while. My only fear is flopping or rolling, and once I have another daily driver even that won't bother me.

[racer85304]

The front hanger is pretty easy to make, the shackles a joke. If you have access to a tubeing bender it would easy enough to make some shock hoops.

how do i go about the demisions of the spring hanger. what do you mean shackles are a joke. are they a waste of money. to easy to make.

i converted it over to us and got around 6,500. thats a lot. but i have leafs already in the back.

on road handling? it really got a lot worse. my toyota right now rides super stiff. it feels funny at 70 and higher but cant really go much higher. it does not vibrate just feels sloppy.

i am not wanting to spend no more then 1500 for all of the sas stuff. so i have enough for the tires.

i have done a sreach on yahoo but i get a lot toyota forklift sas. some kind of thing that help forklifts from flipping over.

thanks for all your help

[snorkleman]

Here are some links Im using while I prepare for the SAS on my truck. I think what Sean is saying is that once you get into doing it..everything starts to add up. You could do a SAS for $1500 but your gonna have to go the cheap route on everything. I know one guy who has done it cheap and he is a mechanic/fabricator. He got good deals on parts, had the tools, metal, and time to put it together and fix it when it broke. What Sean meant about hte shackles being a joke is that they are so easy to make and you get charge 800% over what it cost to make em. Here are the links.

home.4x4wire.com/erik/
128.83.80.200/taco/
www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/dana44/axle/
128.83.80.200/taco/sasfaq.html
www.azttora.com/tacomasas4.html
www.sky-manufacturing.com/
www.completeoffroad.com/
www.tellico4x4.com/steering/soa.htm#44
www.aor4x4.com/index.htm
www.toyotalinks.com/


good luck man

[Sean]

Yeah shackle are a joke to make. Buy bar stock, cut it to length then drill two holes. I was making shackle lifts for my brothers junkers when I was 14, it really is a joke. Just need to get the spacers or make them.
There was someone of pirate that just finished one for under 1200, so it definately can be done. I know from your aussie locker thread that yo go there, so I highly reccomend you check out that thread. That site is also the best place to search for hanger specs, home made shock mounts and all the other cheap tricks to save you money. Just search search search, that's what I did.
On road handling? Around town not so bad, much harsher ride but still no too bad. On the highway it gets scary sometimes. As I go around coners the whole body will rock back and forth because there are no sway bars. Some have sone the swap using sway bars and quick disconnects. I hope to upgrade my axles to 60's in the future and when I do I will look into this option.
If you can't find the specs you need I can measure mine for you. Also I have the jigs for cutting in the shackle tubes, if you want to pay shipping and are willing to return them when yo are donw I will send them to you.

[racer85304]

i am starting to look at a 4 link setup up front. i have been looking at this guys site. www.mudtruk.com. i have been looking at his 4 link setup on his 89 toyota. i am not for sure yet on which one but the 4 link is cool and looks cleaner i think. but the i think the leaf wont be has hard. i still have time to decide because i still havr not sold my bike yet .


thanks Sean and snorkleman for all your guys help.

thanks
justin

[iluvdrt]

i would really look into a 4 link set up before trying it. there is a lot of stuff that goes into it in order for it to work properly. there is nothing wrong with leafs. they work great and are simple. simplicity is the best for trails unless you have deep pockets.. if noone is planning on ever doing more thatn a 3 trail i would stay ifs. i went everywhere with my ifs and even did a 4 trail. if it is built good and you are locked front and rear than really there is nowhere you cant go. although i would say 75% of it is the driver experiance. i have done 3 trails with no lift and no lockers, but it was more nerve racking than fun.

[racer85304]

yeah i have been doing some thinking and research. i am going to go with leafs.

toyota axle up front
waggies up front
chevys in the rear
cutting the fenders a little(not sure how much i will do it when i get tires on there.)
dual shackles in the rear.
try and see if the i can fit 37 mtrs or the iroks.
going to make the front hanger and shackles
allpro hystreer steering

[racer85304]

does anyone know any one that has run this setup up front.

let me know i would like to talk to them.

thanks