Post by DeadlyPeace on Nov 4, 2003 23:02:56 GMT -5
Q: "What are the biggest tires I can put on with what suspension lift?"
A: It depends on why you want taller tires. If you want to look cool, slap on a set of 31x10.50 and have fun. If you want better off road ability, read on. I suggest you keep your stock tire size unless you want to spend a lot of money to do the job correctly. Let me explain:
(I’m not a full-bore suspension expert, but I do know about suspensions and lifting, so I'll just rant and rave a little here.)
First off, ask yourself: "Why do I want bigger tires?"
All tall tires buy you some additional clearance. On a Toyota 4x4, clearance isn't usually the weak link in off road ability, unless you spend a lot of time in deep mud, deeply rutted roads, or deep snow. Even if you do spend a lot of time in "deep dodo" the money can be arguably better spent elsewhere. Here are several reasons:
You'll lose low-end torque, because you'll effectively change the gear ratio. Each rev of the engine will turn the wheel the same number of degrees as before, but since the radius is greater, you'll be turning more circumference. To circumvent this problem, you gotta change your axle gears. If you've got the Toyota 31" option and an automatic transmission, you probably have the Toyota 4.87 gears. Unfortunately, the diff case used in that gear set is different than the others, so you'll need a whole new differential (two of ‘em, maybe), plus gears. Otherwise, you probably have 4.10 gears if your truck is a manual, or 4.30 if it’s an auto. It starts getting real expensive then to do it right, maybe $1000 or more. If you've got the 4cyl, your rig is already too underpowered to get out of its own way without having some kind of engine mods. Taller tires will aggravate the problem unless you regear your axles. Gears will drain your bank account about $350/ axle for per gear third members, or $350 for just the gears for both axles. Then you need to have the gears put in. This will need special tools, a press and the knowledge of space the gears just right. If you’re missing or don’t have access to just one of these then another $300 is needed to be drained out.
For the reason above (unless you put on the new axle gears), your speedometer will read low. And sometimes even with the new gears it may still be a little off.
* Bigger tires are heavier, and the weight is all unsprung, so it will beat your suspension harder, and can make for a rougher ride. Going with lighter aluminum wheels can mitigate this, but that’s expensive. I think it’s probably also rougher on the brakes, but I’m not fully sure.
*Wider tires can cause a little wandering on the pavement, and increase your rolling resistance and wind resistance. You'll pay for this at the gas pump.
Your wife, girlfriend, or whatever, will complain that it’s harder to get into the truck. Don't underestimate the grief this could cause you.
In the end those, I still have my rig. ;D
Also with bigger tires your center of gravity will be higher, making you less stable in turns, unless you get tires that are somewhat wider, in which case you'll need fender flares to keep from looking really silly, especially in the rain. They aren't real cheap, about $150/ wheel.
You won't usually get any extra traction, except in situations where you'd otherwise be high-centered, which is pretty hard to do (most of the time). The open differentials on Toyotas are the largest impediment to traction, not the clearance, which is already the best in its class.
Most people want the taller tires because they think they'll get more off road traction. The truth is, if traction is your goal, get a traction diff for the rear (posi or locker) and keep the stock tires. Check out the LOCKERS (mkelly.proboards22.com/index.cgi?board=FAQ&action=display&thread=1067633238) and GEARS forums (mkelly.proboards22.com/index.cgi?board=FAQ&action=display&thread=1067611875) for more information on traction differentials. Or, if you prefer, get a winch. In fact, a lot of people recommend getting a winch first, because a locker tends to only get you further into the muck where you get REALLY stuck and then really wish you had that winch...
In summary, if you're not made of money, I'd spend the money in getting a winch and lockers at both ends. Then you can spend a lot of time pulling out your friends with tall tires and open diffs. If you really want tall tires, you'll need to spend some money to regear the axles. And if you're going to go through the trouble and expense of regearing your axles, you might as well gear 'em for really tall tires, and then you'll need an expensive lift to clear 'em.
With all that in mind, I understand that 31x10.50 is the largest size that will generally fit without rubbing other parts of your truck.
The following is to help guide you with tire size selections for your 79-96 Toyota 4x4 Pickup or 84-96 4Runner.
The information listed below is merely a guide for someone wanting to lift a stock truck for normal use. It is by no means the definitive source of information on lifting a Toyota 4x4; there are too many other factors to be considered. For example:
Do you seriously off road the vehicle??
Do you really intend on using the increased wheel travel??
How wide of a tire do you plan on running??
What engine changes/improvements have you made??
The few factors I've listed above can greatly affect the lift needed for a given tire size. Not to mention the infinite reasons a 4wd could possibly be used for: slow-speed rock crawling, high-speed desert racing, general purpose 4wheelin', mud racing, long-distance open country trek's where load carrying capacity is also an issue, the possibilities are endless. The best way to decide what tire size and lift are right for your vehicle is to talk to someone who has a vehicle like yours that is lifted and uses the vehicle in a manner similar to what you would.
Lifting your rig:
The inches of lift needed listed below can be a suspension lift, body lift, or a combination of both. With my preference being towards suspension lifts due to the potential increase in wheel travel ability as opposed to body lifts which only allow the fitment of larger tires when used alone. A suspension lift used in conjunction with a small (1”-3") body lift could allow the use of larger tires and extended compression wheel travel to keep the tires from rubbing the vehicles fenders. See the WHY A BODY LIFT forum. (http://mkelly.proboards22.com/index.cgi?board=FAQ&action=display&thread=1068042763)
NOTE: All of the recommendations listed below are assuming a previously unmodified (gears, body lift, suspension lift etc,) Toyota 4x4 with 4.10 gears. Some vehicles with V6's and/or automatic transmission came factory with 4.56 gears.
Year/Model of Vehicle & Lift*/Min Gears Needed:
NOTE: All years should be able to run up to 32” tires
79-83 Pickup:
33" / 2" lift / 4.88 gears
34" / 3" lift / 4.88 or 5.29 gears
35" / 3-5" lift / 5.29 gears
36+" / 5+" lift / 5.71+ gears or an engine swap
84-85 Pickup:
33" / 3" lift / 4.88 gears
34" / 5" lift / 4.88 or 5.29 gears
35" / 5" lift / 5.29 gears
36+" / 5"+ lift / 5.29 gears
86-96 Pickup:
33" / 3" lift / 4.88 gears
34" / 5" lift / 4.88 or 5.29 gears
35" / 5" lift / 5.29 gears
36+" / 5"+ lift / 5.29 gears
84-85 4Runner:
33" / 3" lift / 4.88 gears
34" / 3" lift / 4.88 or 5.29 gears
35" / 3" lift / 4.88 or 5.29 gears
36+" / 5" lift / 5.29 gears
86-96 4Runner:
33" / 3" lift / 4.88 gears
34" / 5" lift / 4.88 or 5.29 gears
35" / 5" lift / 5.29 gears
36+" / 5" lift / 5.29 gears
*For off road use where you plan to stuffing the tires into the fenders add 2”-3” of lift.
Body lift would be best for this, but not more then 3” total body lift. See the WHY A BODY LIFT forum.
A: It depends on why you want taller tires. If you want to look cool, slap on a set of 31x10.50 and have fun. If you want better off road ability, read on. I suggest you keep your stock tire size unless you want to spend a lot of money to do the job correctly. Let me explain:
(I’m not a full-bore suspension expert, but I do know about suspensions and lifting, so I'll just rant and rave a little here.)
First off, ask yourself: "Why do I want bigger tires?"
All tall tires buy you some additional clearance. On a Toyota 4x4, clearance isn't usually the weak link in off road ability, unless you spend a lot of time in deep mud, deeply rutted roads, or deep snow. Even if you do spend a lot of time in "deep dodo" the money can be arguably better spent elsewhere. Here are several reasons:
You'll lose low-end torque, because you'll effectively change the gear ratio. Each rev of the engine will turn the wheel the same number of degrees as before, but since the radius is greater, you'll be turning more circumference. To circumvent this problem, you gotta change your axle gears. If you've got the Toyota 31" option and an automatic transmission, you probably have the Toyota 4.87 gears. Unfortunately, the diff case used in that gear set is different than the others, so you'll need a whole new differential (two of ‘em, maybe), plus gears. Otherwise, you probably have 4.10 gears if your truck is a manual, or 4.30 if it’s an auto. It starts getting real expensive then to do it right, maybe $1000 or more. If you've got the 4cyl, your rig is already too underpowered to get out of its own way without having some kind of engine mods. Taller tires will aggravate the problem unless you regear your axles. Gears will drain your bank account about $350/ axle for per gear third members, or $350 for just the gears for both axles. Then you need to have the gears put in. This will need special tools, a press and the knowledge of space the gears just right. If you’re missing or don’t have access to just one of these then another $300 is needed to be drained out.
For the reason above (unless you put on the new axle gears), your speedometer will read low. And sometimes even with the new gears it may still be a little off.
* Bigger tires are heavier, and the weight is all unsprung, so it will beat your suspension harder, and can make for a rougher ride. Going with lighter aluminum wheels can mitigate this, but that’s expensive. I think it’s probably also rougher on the brakes, but I’m not fully sure.
*Wider tires can cause a little wandering on the pavement, and increase your rolling resistance and wind resistance. You'll pay for this at the gas pump.
Your wife, girlfriend, or whatever, will complain that it’s harder to get into the truck. Don't underestimate the grief this could cause you.
In the end those, I still have my rig. ;DAlso with bigger tires your center of gravity will be higher, making you less stable in turns, unless you get tires that are somewhat wider, in which case you'll need fender flares to keep from looking really silly, especially in the rain. They aren't real cheap, about $150/ wheel.
You won't usually get any extra traction, except in situations where you'd otherwise be high-centered, which is pretty hard to do (most of the time). The open differentials on Toyotas are the largest impediment to traction, not the clearance, which is already the best in its class.
Most people want the taller tires because they think they'll get more off road traction. The truth is, if traction is your goal, get a traction diff for the rear (posi or locker) and keep the stock tires. Check out the LOCKERS (mkelly.proboards22.com/index.cgi?board=FAQ&action=display&thread=1067633238) and GEARS forums (mkelly.proboards22.com/index.cgi?board=FAQ&action=display&thread=1067611875) for more information on traction differentials. Or, if you prefer, get a winch. In fact, a lot of people recommend getting a winch first, because a locker tends to only get you further into the muck where you get REALLY stuck and then really wish you had that winch...
In summary, if you're not made of money, I'd spend the money in getting a winch and lockers at both ends. Then you can spend a lot of time pulling out your friends with tall tires and open diffs. If you really want tall tires, you'll need to spend some money to regear the axles. And if you're going to go through the trouble and expense of regearing your axles, you might as well gear 'em for really tall tires, and then you'll need an expensive lift to clear 'em.
With all that in mind, I understand that 31x10.50 is the largest size that will generally fit without rubbing other parts of your truck.
The following is to help guide you with tire size selections for your 79-96 Toyota 4x4 Pickup or 84-96 4Runner.
The information listed below is merely a guide for someone wanting to lift a stock truck for normal use. It is by no means the definitive source of information on lifting a Toyota 4x4; there are too many other factors to be considered. For example:
Do you seriously off road the vehicle??
Do you really intend on using the increased wheel travel??
How wide of a tire do you plan on running??
What engine changes/improvements have you made??
The few factors I've listed above can greatly affect the lift needed for a given tire size. Not to mention the infinite reasons a 4wd could possibly be used for: slow-speed rock crawling, high-speed desert racing, general purpose 4wheelin', mud racing, long-distance open country trek's where load carrying capacity is also an issue, the possibilities are endless. The best way to decide what tire size and lift are right for your vehicle is to talk to someone who has a vehicle like yours that is lifted and uses the vehicle in a manner similar to what you would.
Lifting your rig:
The inches of lift needed listed below can be a suspension lift, body lift, or a combination of both. With my preference being towards suspension lifts due to the potential increase in wheel travel ability as opposed to body lifts which only allow the fitment of larger tires when used alone. A suspension lift used in conjunction with a small (1”-3") body lift could allow the use of larger tires and extended compression wheel travel to keep the tires from rubbing the vehicles fenders. See the WHY A BODY LIFT forum. (http://mkelly.proboards22.com/index.cgi?board=FAQ&action=display&thread=1068042763)
NOTE: All of the recommendations listed below are assuming a previously unmodified (gears, body lift, suspension lift etc,) Toyota 4x4 with 4.10 gears. Some vehicles with V6's and/or automatic transmission came factory with 4.56 gears.
Year/Model of Vehicle & Lift*/Min Gears Needed:
NOTE: All years should be able to run up to 32” tires
79-83 Pickup:
33" / 2" lift / 4.88 gears
34" / 3" lift / 4.88 or 5.29 gears
35" / 3-5" lift / 5.29 gears
36+" / 5+" lift / 5.71+ gears or an engine swap
84-85 Pickup:
33" / 3" lift / 4.88 gears
34" / 5" lift / 4.88 or 5.29 gears
35" / 5" lift / 5.29 gears
36+" / 5"+ lift / 5.29 gears
86-96 Pickup:
33" / 3" lift / 4.88 gears
34" / 5" lift / 4.88 or 5.29 gears
35" / 5" lift / 5.29 gears
36+" / 5"+ lift / 5.29 gears
84-85 4Runner:
33" / 3" lift / 4.88 gears
34" / 3" lift / 4.88 or 5.29 gears
35" / 3" lift / 4.88 or 5.29 gears
36+" / 5" lift / 5.29 gears
86-96 4Runner:
33" / 3" lift / 4.88 gears
34" / 5" lift / 4.88 or 5.29 gears
35" / 5" lift / 5.29 gears
36+" / 5" lift / 5.29 gears
*For off road use where you plan to stuffing the tires into the fenders add 2”-3” of lift.
Body lift would be best for this, but not more then 3” total body lift. See the WHY A BODY LIFT forum.
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