New guy lookin for some advice

[JOSH]

Hey, I just got my license and i'm gonna start fixing my dads '85 pickup up to be a trail/mud rig and was wondering where the best place to start was and what would be some good equipment to use. I am on a pretty tight budget and right now the truck isnt in the best of condition, but it runs pretty well without many problems.

Thanks

[DeadlyPeace]

Well hey there new Yotster...Welcome to the gang.

Well a good place to start would really depend on what you want to do and what you will be using your new Toy for.

I guess first off...what kind of problems does it have? Some of these problem depending on what they are could be a good starting point. Cuz no matter how well built your rig is it ain't going to do much if it's not running good.

Second....is it fully stock or does it have any mods done to it? Maybe a few inches of lift and some tires. You could do a 2" to 3" body lift and 31" to 33" tires. This would help keep your ride to stay smooth (as stock) and is fairly cheap. About $50 to $75 for the lift kit and $400 for some ok tires. Or you can go with a 3" to 4" suspension lift and up to 35" tires. www.allprooffroad.com has a good lift kit for about $2000, but it comes with everything you'll need....

Kit includes:

Hy-Steer™ Crossover Steering
IFS steering mount, reinforcement plate and template
Front spring hanger with mounting tabs, bolts and bushings
Front 1.5" greasable shackles
Rear 1.5" greasable shackles
Front long travel leaf springs, bushings, spring pad
Rear long travel 56" long leaf spring, bushings
Heavy duty rear spring hangers
Front U bolt flip kit (2 plates and 4 U bolts)
Rear perch kit and shock mounts
Front and rear extended brake lines (set of three)
Steering stabilizer
2 Shock hoops and 4 hoop braces
Front and rear 5100 Bilstein shocks

Third if you want to do some crawling then you're gonna want to start with some gearing. Put some 5.29 third members on your axles. They run about $350 ea fully built and ready to bolt on. Or about $350 for all the gears, but if you don't have the right tools or know how to do them it will cost you about $300 to have someone put the gears on for you (This is if you remove the third members yourself and take them in). And for really slow crawling a daul tansfer case comes to mind. This will run about $800 plus some floor board mods and about $200 in driveline mods.

Let us know what you want to do to your rig and I, and I'm sure a few others can give you more of a better way to get you wheeling along.

BTW I do know a cheaper suspension lift idea if you're insterested. It still cost a few $$$ but it can save you a little to start you off.

[glow=red,6,300]GOOD LUCK[/glow]

And sorry about the prices, but this hobbies or sport can be hard on the pocket book.

[JOSH]

Hey thanks for the reply...
I'm gonna be using my rig for mostly playin around in the mud and runnin some trails. I'm not lookin for it to be a really serious rig but something that wont get stuck, ya know...
there are really no major problems that need fixing, just the regular things that come with having 200 thousand miles on the engine. I'm lookin to put some lift on it and i've heard that i should stay away from the body lifts cause that puts too much stress on the frame. Is this true? Probably somewhere between 3 and 5 inches of lift, nothing huge. Any suggestions for the engine?
Once again thanks for the help...

[fourwd1]

No, a 2 or 3" body lift is very common and no problem.
Add 2-3" of suspension lift and your'e there. Lift possibilities include new springs, Add-A-Leafs, blocks (rear only). Most of the aftermarket manufacturers offer a variety of kits for solid axle Toys. Check the ads in one of the 4X4 mags.

[toy94x4]

I think if the truck is running good and you don't have to do anything to the engine, a locker would be best to start out with. You can pick an aussie locker for $200 until Dec. 31, after that it's $260. I'll be ordering mine here in a couple weeks. I've seen what a stock vechile with a locker can do, and let me tell you it's a lot more than a lifted one with bigger tires and no locker. Yes the clearance and bigger tires will be needed eventually, but in my opinion I'd get the locker first and then the lift. But really it's personal preferance. Good Luck and Welcome to Wheelin!

[JOSH]

Thanks for all the info guys.
I'm not really sure what a locker does could you explain that, and what would be a good body lift and set of leaf springs (front and rear) that would give me around 5 to 6 inces?
Thanks again!

[iluvdrt]

for a tight buget i would get a locker first above everything else. a lockright is cheap and dependable and will help you a heck of a lot more than a body lift. then i would go to the lift and tires. if your a pretty good mechanic(decent anyway) you can install the locker your self. that will be the first thing i do when i get my new toy.

[Sean]

What a locker does?
Well in a open differential the both tires wil recieve equal torque. If one tire is lifted and spinning that is 0 torque so the other tire will just sit and so nothing. Most vechicles have an open differential to allow the tires to turn at a different pace while cornering.
There are three basic types of lockers.
Automatic: Detroit locker, lockrite, aussie ect. The automatic locker works usually on a racheting system. Under heavy torque the locker will automaticly engage so that both tires spin at the same rate, no matter the traction difference. THe rachecting system allows the vehicle to turn corners with outboth tires turning to same pace. There are two basic types of automatic lockers. The cheaper versions fit inside the existing differential carrier(aussie, lockrite) whicle the more expensive replace the entire carrier(detroit). These are very different from a posi traction unit which use clutches and are prone to slippage. Once engaged the auto locker spins both tires the same rate until the torque input(gas) is backed off.
Selectable: ARB, Toyota factory electric ect. Seclectable lockers work quite differently the automatic lockers. Under normal driving the differential will perform as an open differential. When the locker is engaged however it becomes fully locked like a spool, with both tires turning the same rate no matter the traction or torque input. The beauty is they engage at the flip of a switch, which means it's only on when you want it to be. These are obviously the locker of choice for a daily driven vechicle, but the price is quite prohibitive, usually several times the price of a aussie or lockrite, and about 40-60% more then a detroit.
Spool or welded diff: A spool replaces the differential with a soild spool. It forces the tires to spin at the same rate, all the time. Because of this they are usually reserved for trail only rigs. A welded diff although no a spool performs funtionally the same way.

[snorkleman]

I think Mike oughta put Sean's reply in the article section to explain lockers...if there isn't one there already... ;D

[DeadlyPeace]

[shadow=red,left,300][glow=red,4,300]I second that.....[/glow][/shadow]

[Mike Kelly]

Great idea guys ;D

I definately will. Sean you are a wealth of information!

[JOSH]

Thanks again guys for all the info you've given me.
if i was to put about a 3 inch suspension lift and a 3 inch body lift would that require new shocks?
I know i would need hysteer and that what not but is there anything else?

[DeadlyPeace]

You will need new shocks. A set of Rancho 5000's should do you ok.

The Hy-steer you can actually get away with not putting on, but it will drive and wheel a lot nicer with it.

[MXjunk127]

hehe Man this is great stuff!

I dont know where to begin... Your going to have fun!

I think that this lift thing is wrong, but its just me i know, enlighten me, Say I want to run a 10" lift with 35" boggers. Why cant i just get the 7" suspension lift kit from super lift, and add a 3" boddy that i have? what else needs doing, what are shackles, do they add lift?

I'll personally be running 7.5" of lift with 35's on 10X8s, a small block 350, maby even EFI because i like to MUD,

is there more too it that just the lift, shock and tires?

[glow=red,2,300]SWEET! Good posts![/glow]

[DeadlyPeace]

MXjunk127*

You could go with the a 7" suspension lift and a 3" body. As a matter of fact that is the best way to go. The only other way to really do it would be to use blocks, but best to keep them in the rear only. Also need to make sure not to get your driveline at too much of an angle.

The shackles are there so that the leaf spring isn't pushing against the frame so that it can work more efficiently and have more give to it. Shackles do add lift if you get longer then the stock ones. The best way to set them up is with a double shackle set up. It work like a standard single shackle as you drive (the upper shackle lies against the frame) then when you flex your springs out, where the shingle shackle would start to stop working the second one begins to drop so you can keep flexing.

[JOSH]

How much travel do those rancho shocks have and are they longer than normal? I want my ride to be pretty flexy when i get done with it, and where could i get a new set of leaf springs for the front and back that would add a couple inches of lift?

[L8sho2003]

Josh,as for mechanical mods I would say that a rear locker would be your best bang for the buck to start with. However, if you are looking at what a poor guy like me sees as big ticket mods ($2,000 allpro lift), I would say start with a winch. The winch will almost always get you home with the right accessories and the right knowledge of rigging, where all the other mods will help you get even more stuck. Don't heckle me yet guys, I think your advised mods are top notch, but where I live (backwoods, MS), there are no organized clubs so I am always riding alone. just something to think about. Hey, you are starting with an 85 so your already ahead of half of us(fuel injection and solid front axle). happy wheelin'

[DeadlyPeace]

L8sho2003, there's no need to worry about being heckled......yet.

Lockers would be a good place to start if you're not going to be doing any serious wheelin', and are easy on the wallet. As for a winch.......It just adds wieght to the front end of your truck. Yes I know they're good to have when you need them, but if you got the right rig for the playing that you do, you shouldn't need a winch. EX: I had a winch on my 82 TOY and used it only three times in the five and half years that I owned it. All three times were to help someone else out. So it's all a matter of how you build your rig. Now a winch might be a good thing to put on your rig if you plan on playing in the mud.......and I don't mean puddles that are about a foot or two deep I'm talking MUD. But then if you don't have the hieght, a foot or two could be MUD for you.

Just my two copper coins ;D

[L8sho2003]

I'm talking hydrolockin your rig mud. This ain't cali.

[L8sho2003]

also there's no telling how many times I've seen a locked rig with 33's run circles around a rig with 40's and open diffs. You've seen about as much mud as I've seen rocks